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Playing out from the Back
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Posted 8/2/2018 19:21
#1040996
Subject: Playing out from the Back



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Just something that's been catching my eye more and more recently, and it's confusing me a bit.

From the North Stand, I get a good view of this incident, which happens at least 5 times every game. From Begovic/a goal kick etc. Francis will receive the ball, he'll start to be closed down, he'll slowly and very obviously shift the ball onto his right foot. Then right at the last moment, he'll lay it off to Fraser/Smith. At this point, Fraser/Smith will be hugging the touchline and surrounded by markers, so he'll lay it off back to Francis, who hastily shanks it clear, giving away a throw in.

I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened; I don't remember it actually leading to a goal being conceded but it's an example of sloppy play when we play out from the back that seems to happen like clockwork every single game. I don't know if Francis, as captain, is told to play the short pass in this situation to sort of set an example to the other defenders, but it happens a lot, and we always lose possession from it.

Sorry if this comes off as an inane nitpick, I'm not having a go at Francis or anything, I was just wondering if anyone else had picked up on it, or maybe any other passages of play that seem to happen every game.

Edited by NWCherries98 8/2/2018 19:23
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Posted 8/2/2018 19:38
#1040998 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



I thought this stopped 7 games ago................
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Posted 8/2/2018 19:40
#1040999 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: RE: Playing out from the Back


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NWCherries98 - 8/2/2018 19:21

Sorry if this comes off as an inane nitpick, I'm not having a go at Francis or anything, I was just wondering if anyone else had picked up on it, or maybe any other passages of play that seem to happen every game.


I dont want to nitpick on Eddie too much but I have noticed that recently we dont seem to lose very often, even winning occasionally. Has anyone else noticed this?
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Posted 8/2/2018 20:27
#1041010 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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The idea is to create options. If we just hoof it we lose it regardless. With the ball at Franno’s feet, we have the possibility to beat the press or hoof if they close us down, or simply retain possession if they don’t.

Obviously when you play like this you rely on the player to choose the right option and execute it correctly. Something we haven’t always got right but we’ve seen this season plenty of times how beneficial the threat of having different options is.

I’m thinking more of set pieces and our variety of short, dummy and long deliveries rather than playing from the back specifically but point is still valid. I just wish the home crowd wouldn’t groan so much when we take a short GK or set piece.
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Posted 8/2/2018 21:16
#1041025 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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One day we'll do it as well as Man City. Till then it'll only work some of the time. But recently (since Wilson's been back) we've also got it forward more quickly from time to time. Which I guess keeps the other team from pressing so much.
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Posted 8/2/2018 22:13
#1041040 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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One of our defenders gives ball away shocker!....
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Posted 8/2/2018 23:08
#1041042 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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We can't get rid of playing it out from the back .How else am I going to get in my 4 or 5 potential heart attacks every weekend ?
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Posted 9/2/2018 00:10
#1041048 - in reply to #1040999
Subject: RE: Playing out from the Back



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Chris2001 - 8/2/2018 19:40

NWCherries98 - 8/2/2018 19:21

Sorry if this comes off as an inane nitpick, I'm not having a go at Francis or anything, I was just wondering if anyone else had picked up on it, or maybe any other passages of play that seem to happen every game.


I dont want to nitpick on Eddie too much but I have noticed that recently we dont seem to lose very often, even winning occasionally. Has anyone else noticed this?


That's some s***e sarcasm. It's not even relevant to anything I said. But thanks for the input.
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Posted 9/2/2018 00:21
#1041050 - in reply to #1041010
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Tinpot Club - 8/2/2018 20:27

The idea is to create options. If we just hoof it we lose it regardless. With the ball at Franno’s feet, we have the possibility to beat the press or hoof if they close us down, or simply retain possession if they don’t.

Obviously when you play like this you rely on the player to choose the right option and execute it correctly. Something we haven’t always got right but we’ve seen this season plenty of times how beneficial the threat of having different options is.

I’m thinking more of set pieces and our variety of short, dummy and long deliveries rather than playing from the back specifically but point is still valid. I just wish the home crowd wouldn’t groan so much when we take a short GK or set piece.


I don't groan in the stadium, that's what this forums for, isn't it?
And I obviously get why we play it out from the back, it's just this very particular scenario plays out every match and never seems to work?

It's not even a criticism, it's just an observation.
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Posted 9/2/2018 07:51
#1041062 - in reply to #1041025
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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JohnHold - 8/2/2018 21:16

One day we'll do it as well as Man City. Till then it'll only work some of the time. But recently (since Wilson's been back) we've also got it forward more quickly from time to time. Which I guess keeps the other team from pressing so much.


Agreed.

If Fraser has two or more players round him then somewhere out there there is at least one player unmarked.


We just have to keep teams guessing.

That's where we came unstuck a bit at the start of the season.

We were playing pretty attractive football that was predictable.

Teams just snuffed us out and then caught us on the back foot because they pretty much knew where our defenders would be after our nice well constructed move broke down.


If 9 out of 10 times Fraser gets the ball from Franno and 1 time it goes somewhere totally different, that's got to make the opposition just a teensy weesny bit worried.


The form we're in at present, if Huddersfield play a high tempo pressing game against us, we'll murder them.






Edited by Ken Baileys Ghost 9/2/2018 07:56
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Posted 9/2/2018 09:36
#1041082 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Tbf We did mix it up a bit against Chelsea...Begovic targeted the left wing quite a lot....looked like an obvious tactic imo....our first goal came from it in fact.
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Posted 9/2/2018 10:59
#1041103 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Agree with all that KBG, good points.
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Posted 9/2/2018 11:37
#1041104 - in reply to #1041103
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Sometimes Begovic plays it to Francis on the right or to Ake on the left.

Other times he has thrown out to the wing where a player is unmarked.

The ball to Francis and then back to Begovic still means we have possession.

If Begovic just kicks it, then it becomes a 50-50 chance who gets the ball.

When Francis (as mentioned) gets caught with the ball, better to hoof it down the pitch even if the ball goes out. Francis/whoever have in the past tried to pass back to our keeper but the ball has been intercepted and we have been punished for it.
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Posted 9/2/2018 11:50
#1041108 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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I am not sure that my contribution to this debate is going to be any help at all :0). But from where I sit, in the East Stand, I see a different version of NWC98's view, and what he describes seems to happen mainly in the first half. Early in a match, the ball comes from Cookie to Francis. If he's not being pressed, Francis quite often holds the ball and waggles his hands. I am not quite sure what waggling of hands means (midfield to come a get the ball?) but it does happen quite a lot and it drives me mildly nuts. He then passes the ball on the ground to, I guess, Fraser (I'm a long way away and the play is over by the main stand), the ball then comes back to him and then I mutter to myself, 'don't hoof it'. But as sure as eggs are eggs the ball goes up in the air and there ensues either a game of aerial ping pong, when it's a lottery as to where the ball ends up, or a throw in.

In the second half, quite often the team has worn down the opposition so there is more room to manoeuver and Franno can go on one of his gallops down the wing, he still waggles his hands mind.
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Posted 9/2/2018 19:36
#1041166 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Should probably leave someone up for corners too
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Posted 9/2/2018 20:00
#1041171 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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...the technique of playing out from Begovic to the defenders requires quick thought and intuition to play the next ball right...so often this fails to happen and Francis gets the ball takes too much time on it and panics a bit and lays a pass that causes more panic and the ball gets played back to him! Same on the other side often between Cook and Daniels...all this said it is still better than the hoof up field!
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Posted 9/2/2018 20:58
#1041175 - in reply to #1041171
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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Garbo - 9/2/2018 20:00

..all this said it is still better than the hoof up field!


but in most cases it does end up in a hoof up to Wilson or King.

Of course the purist will say its a punt up into the channels...
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Posted 9/2/2018 21:03
#1041177 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back



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Sometimes a big punt up field is just what the doctor ordered.


People get so anal about playing on the deck, tippy tappy stuff the whole time.



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Posted 9/2/2018 21:05
#1041178 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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Bloody right
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Posted 9/2/2018 21:07
#1041179 - in reply to #1040996
Subject: Re: Playing out from the Back


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..you are right Ken there are many times in matches when I just want us to clear the damn ball and not try and ping pong it around the oppositions attack!

It is looking like we now have a midfielder in Lewis Cook who can hold on to the ball in front of our defence and around the centre spot and play an intelligent pass...the better players always look like they have plenty of time on the ball because of their control (as Wilshere showed us many times last season)
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