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UTC LegendPosts: 5441   | It wont lose him votes, this time next week people would have forgotten about it and moved on. | |
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 UTC LegendPosts: 5505  Location: An unintersting georgian town | This discussion highlights my point SG. We all see it slightly differently. | |
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| Why Thomas was left out of the bible?
A few suggestions.
1. The early church in Jerusalem was led by James.
2. James is inconvenient to the Roman church as he is described as “James the righteous, the brother of Jesus." If he were the bother of Jesus then he too must be the son of God and equally as divine as Jesus himself. This scotches the idea of the Holy Trinity. Worse, that James and Jesus are earthly twins with no more connection to God than anyone other mortal.
3. Thomas represented Jesus as a spiritual leader where heaven is on earth. The sayings of Jesus advise seeking until they to know themselves and find what will enable them to become rulers of their own lives (sounds like Buddhism, eh?).
4. Thomas quotes Jesus as saying ‘I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.’ Doesn’t this sound like Shintoism or the belief systems of the Aborigines in Australia?
5. The Gospel calls Jesus the Son of Man. There is no Christ or Lord or any idea that he was better or superior in anyway to everyone else. Jesus was a lefty! Socialism would have been anathema to a hierarchical church system.
6. Thomas indicates that there were many more than 12 disciples these include Mary and Salome. Women, no way! (this is alluded to in Acts of the Apostles).
7. The birth, miracles, death, or resurrection of Jesus are absent from Thomas. That is it has none of the magical, supernatural elements of Christianity. By the way, who was it that made up the idea of transubstantiation?
8. Thomas linked the tradition of circumcision as a man-made device as a source of income for the priesthood rather than anything to do with hygene or religious requirements. His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."
9. The Roman church placed man above all the other creatures of the earth and all the resources of the planet were there to be plundered and exploited. But according to Thomas, Jesus was a real conservationist. And Jesus said. ‘The fishermen cast their net into the sea and drew it up full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He chose the large fish and threw all the little fish back into the sea. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!" Matthew echoes this, by the way.
10. Thomas encourages people to reach their own conclusions. The other gospels preach a ready-formed message. Surely Jesus used parables because he wanted us to be self-critical and think for ourselves?
None of this would help a male-dominated hierarchical church that claimed direct providence from God. It wouldn’t help to keep the masses subdued inpoverty while the thieving bishops and abbots gorged themselves. Don’t do as we do, do as we say.
So, they sold people the idea of an after life where if you behave yourself now, everything will be hunky dory and no, you can’t read it for yourselves as it is only supposed to be in Latin and we won’t teach you to read anyway.
To finish, he sounds like a thoroughly modern bloke, this Jesus. He would surely have voted for gay marriage.
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 Fans' Favourite Posts: 1050  Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high | dragonm8 - 6/2/2013 09:03
an implanted womb fritter
That sounds really unpleasant, I'd rather have apple or banana | |
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First Team Posts: 423 Location: Wimborne | The way I see it, nothing's going to change for everyone who hasn't had a same-sex marriage. Nobody's going to think 'I have to get some of that same sex action' suddenly, nor are members of the LGBT community going to break into people's houses and steal children. The only people in society to be affected will be the people who want a same-sex marriage.
The whole point of marriage back in the times of the Bible was supposedly to procreate (and in reality, to cement unions between houses and secure wealth, which is something Jesus would have disapproved of) - on that basis those who are infertile should be banned from marriage surely?
Not to mention that Charlie Sheen, Kelsey Grammer, most politicians, Prince Charles, etc have all done things that violate the sanctity of marriage in one form or another, but these have been overlooked by the 'no' crowd because apparently the gays are the ones to destroy this institution?
As mentioned earlier the Biblical passage that suggests that a man should not lie with another man also states that the eating of shellfish is forbidden as is the cutting of one's beard. I don't see hordes of religious protesters outside the local barbers or seafood restaurants?
In my view, the people who use any of the arguments about how it's between a man and a woman, the Bible says it's wrong or that it will destroy marriage need to re-examine their articles. It's not going to affect anyone who's not looking to have one, so who interfere with that? | |
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Star Player Posts: 975 Location: Any Pub | I'm a bigot,I think it is wrong.Am I allowed to say that? Or will all the other correct people tell me I am wrong? | |
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UTC LegendPosts: 5441 | Old Rattle - 6/2/2013 22:38
I'm a bigot,I think it is wrong.Am I allowed to say that? Or will all the other correct people tell me I am wrong?
they will just accuse you of being BNP or a nazi or something. I wouldnt worry they are a load of wet blankets. | |
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The Gaffer Posts: 3445 Location: In a Hurdy Gurdy Glissando. | Haven't read all this thread (seems a bit wordy in places) but all this talk of religious icons, did Eddie, Jason and Supa actually have a vote? : ) | |
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| Of course youre allowed to say that. Dont go,down the Martyr route. I'm interested in why you think it's wrong, what the reason is. | |
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| ErikthViking - 6/2/2013 11:39
Why Thomas was left out of the bible?
A few suggestions.
1. The early church in Jerusalem was led by James.
2. James is inconvenient to the Roman church as he is described as “James the righteous, the brother of Jesus." If he were the bother of Jesus then he too must be the son of God and equally as divine as Jesus himself. This scotches the idea of the Holy Trinity. Worse, that James and Jesus are earthly twins with no more connection to God than anyone other mortal.
3. Thomas represented Jesus as a spiritual leader where heaven is on earth. The sayings of Jesus advise seeking until they to know themselves and find what will enable them to become rulers of their own lives (sounds like Buddhism, eh?).
4. Thomas quotes Jesus as saying ‘I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.’ Doesn’t this sound like Shintoism or the belief systems of the Aborigines in Australia?
5. The Gospel calls Jesus the Son of Man. There is no Christ or Lord or any idea that he was better or superior in anyway to everyone else. Jesus was a lefty! Socialism would have been anathema to a hierarchical church system.
6. Thomas indicates that there were many more than 12 disciples these include Mary and Salome. Women, no way! (this is alluded to in Acts of the Apostles).
7. The birth, miracles, death, or resurrection of Jesus are absent from Thomas. That is it has none of the magical, supernatural elements of Christianity. By the way, who was it that made up the idea of transubstantiation?
8. Thomas linked the tradition of circumcision as a man-made device as a source of income for the priesthood rather than anything to do with hygene or religious requirements. His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."
9. The Roman church placed man above all the other creatures of the earth and all the resources of the planet were there to be plundered and exploited. But according to Thomas, Jesus was a real conservationist. And Jesus said. ‘The fishermen cast their net into the sea and drew it up full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He chose the large fish and threw all the little fish back into the sea. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!" Matthew echoes this, by the way.
10. Thomas encourages people to reach their own conclusions. The other gospels preach a ready-formed message. Surely Jesus used parables because he wanted us to be self-critical and think for ourselves?
None of this would help a male-dominated hierarchical church that claimed direct providence from God. It wouldn’t help to keep the masses subdued inpoverty while the thieving bishops and abbots gorged themselves. Don’t do as we do, do as we say.
So, they sold people the idea of an after life where if you behave yourself now, everything will be hunky dory and no, you can’t read it for yourselves as it is only supposed to be in Latin and we won’t teach you to read anyway.
To finish, he sounds like a thoroughly modern bloke, this Jesus. He would surely have voted for gay marriage.
Thomas probably got left out of the bible because he didn't look interested in training, following his return from being on loan to the Koran. | |
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| fritter - 7/2/2013 00:13
Of course youre allowed to say that. Dont go,down the Martyr route. I'm interested in why you think it's wrong, what the reason is.
Exactly. I'm not calling anyone names....just that I've asked 3 times now and not had a response...
Why are you against the idea?! | |
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Non football - Gay marriage vote.
